Sovereign Computing: Reclaiming Your Digital Freedom - The Sovereign Computing Show (SOV001)

What is sovereign computing? In this episode of the Sovereign Computing Show, hosts Jordan Bravo and Stephen DeLorme discuss the principles of sovereign computing, emphasizing the importance of individuals owning and controlling their technology. They explain how modern cloud services often work against users’ interests by abstracting control and data away from them. The episode covers foundational tips, such as using a password manager to better manage and secure digital lives.

Links

• Jordan Bravo
• Stephen DeLorme

Transcript

Jordan Bravo: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show presented by ATL BitLab. I'm Jordan Bravo and this is a podcast where we teach you how to take back control of your devices. Sovereign Computing means you own your technology, not the other way around.

Stephen DeLorme: This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab. ATL BitLab is Atlanta's freedom tech hackerspace.

We have co working desks, conference rooms, event space, maker tools, and tons of coffee. There is a very active community here in the lab. Every Wednesday night is Bitcoin night here in Atlanta. We also have meetups for cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, decentralized identity, product design, and more.

We offer day passes and nomad passes for people who need to use the lab only occasionally, as well as memberships for people who plan to use the lab more regularly, such as myself. One of the best things about having a BitLab membership isn't the amenities, it's the people. Surrounding yourself with a community helps you learn faster and helps you build better.

Your creativity becomes amplified when you [00:01:00] work in this space. That's what I think at least. If you're interested in becoming a member or supporting the space, please visit us at atlbitlab. com That's A T L B I T L A B dot com. All right, on to our show.

Jordan Bravo: Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show. I'm Jordan, and I'm here with Stephen.

Stephen DeLorme: Hey, what's up?

Jordan Bravo: And today we're going to talk about what is sovereign computing? And why is it important? Why do we care? So let me pose the question to you first, Stephen. Um, what is sovereign computing? What does that mean? And what, what does it mean to you?

Stephen DeLorme: Hmm. Well, I guess sovereign computing would be like computing that I control, that I personally, uh, get to, you know, say what I get to do with it.

Um, I mean, I think that, that would. It's a broad topic, but I [00:02:00] think, uh, that's really the core of it for me is just the, it's kind of like, uh, you know, instead of it being in the cloud, it's something that I directly control. Really it's the old way of doing it more than anything. Yeah. Yeah. How about you?

Jordan Bravo: Um, for me, it's.

Like you said, it's the old way of doing things. It's the way it's the default mode of all of, for all of humanity, for all of history, until the more recent era of cloud computing and offloading our computing to other parties. So for example, if we think pre computing, just think about any tool, you know, maybe you have a hammer, Or a saw or, or, uh, a horse, right?

Any tool that humans have used throughout history. We always know that when you're, when you're holding a hammer or whatever it might be, there is not some sneaky, uh, goings on in that hammer that's secretly working against you and making it [00:03:00] harder to hammer, or maybe hammering in a way that's less beneficial for you and more beneficial for the hammer manufacturer.

Right. And when I say it like that, it sounds kind of ridiculous, but this is Normalized in our modern computing era, because computing devices are so much more complex and complicated than a hammer or simple tools. So there's a lot going on under the hood. That's abstracted away from all of us. And those of us who are really geeky and get into the weeds, maybe it's our profession.

We, we know what's going on under the hood. But more and more people are realizing that their devices are not working for them. They're working for some other company, typically. And so for me, it's, it's not about any particular technology. It's about knowing that The stuff that I'm using, that I'm putting my effort into and working on is doing, it's serving me and it's serving the people that I designed it to serve.

[00:04:00] Uh, it's not doing anything sneaky or nefarious, and it's not programmed by somebody else to do something that's against my own interests. Now, all of that's pretty vague, but we can get into more specifics like, um, maybe a phone that is. It's recording all of your data and sending it to some other company that makes money off of it in various ways.

Or maybe it's, it's something as simple as it's shipping you an update that you never wanted and maybe you're working on your computer and it demands that it's time for you to reboot because damn it, it's update time. And no. I will tell you what to do, computer. That's basically, like, if I could put it in sort of like a

Stephen DeLorme: You're not going to survive the singularity with that kind of attitude.

Jordan Bravo: Right, right. So it's kind of like if I could put it into a childish sort of like temper tantrum phrase, it would be like, you don't tell me what to do, computer. I tell you what to do. And when I say a computer, of course, I mean, any of our computing devices, this could be smartphones, [00:05:00] tablets, laptops, desktops, servers.

Um, so that, that to me is kind of the crux of it. It's like, I don't want to ask another company permission to use my own property. And when we have a computing device, that's. Running on a permission system, like a third party is controlling it. Think about it, like, I'll give you a a concrete example. If I'm using Gmail on my Google, Android phone, every time I am checking my email, or maybe it's my personal photos and videos of my family.

I'm, I'm doing a little virtual, uh, I'm raising my hand virtually. And I'm saying, Google, please let me access the data that I think is mine, but really it's on your servers. And according to the terms and conditions, you're letting me use it as long as I. As long as you deem me worthy, but the moment you decide, no, I'm cut off and I have zero recourse.

I have zero legal recourse and I have zero technological read. [00:06:00] So when the reason that I moved away from that is because I like to know that where I place my data, it belongs to me and nobody is going to cut me off from it. So, uh, I, I guess that's scratching the surface of it. And we can go into more detail about how are, how the current cloud computing model is, and what a more sovereign computing alternative to that might be.

Do you have anything to add on that?

Stephen DeLorme: Yeah. I liked your, uh, analogy with the, uh, the hammer and the hammer is actually, uh, you know, could be what if the hammer was constructed in a way that, uh, benefits the, the hammer manufacturer and all that let's take that analogy a little bit further. So you say our modern, uh, You know, cloud computing, all of the digital services environments, uh, that we use in our live, would that be kind of like, uh, analogy for that would be like, I'm living on a farm and, um, in the old days [00:07:00] or whatever.

And the, uh, you know, the, the hammer is designed to benefit the hammer manufacturer. And, uh, the, the pitchfork or whatever I use to bale my hay, um, uh, actually, like, uh, leaks my, uh, data to someone, uh, in the nearest village. Actually, it doesn't leak it to a person. It leaks it, um, to, like, the milk jug or something like that.

And they're all, like, all these, uh, all these, uh, inanimate, uh, objects and farm tools and, you know, food containers and what have you. Actually, uh, chattering and gossiping amongst each other and, uh, sharing, uh, stories about me and, uh, they're doing it, uh, try and predict what I'm going to do next on my farm and, uh, see how they can extract the most value out of me.

Is that a pretty good analogy, you think?

Jordan Bravo: Yeah, absolutely. And to kind of maybe torture the metaphor, but it's, it's sort of fun. We could think of also maybe your [00:08:00] pitchfork is. It's every time you are scooping, every time you're shoveling some hay, let's say it's, it's bleeding off maybe five or 10 percent of that kinetic energy that you're putting into it.

And it's charging a battery that later will be used to power the pitchfork manufacturers Uh, factory right now, this is may seem a little ridiculous, but like it's, it's benefiting the pitchfork manufacturer by taking away some of your life force, your life energy. And it's, and it's, uh, bleeding off in a way that you would never choose to on your own if you had any control over it.

And I think it's important to point out that none of this is because of technological limitations. When I say none of this, I mean, modern computing, the way it's. Design we, we could still have all of these nice things, right? We don't have to live in a cave with zero technology. In fact, I'm a very technological person.

[00:09:00] I do it for a profession and I love technology. I love the cutting edge stuff. So I want a cloud. I want my data to sync across multiple, multiple devices. I want these modern conveniences, but it's a fallacy to think that we, in order to have these conveniences, we have to give up control of our data and our sovereignty.

To these companies because they're not designing it this way because of any sort of technological limitation, they're designing it for business reasons, right? Business, uh, that benefits them typically with data. So that I think is important to point out because. We're not here to poo poo technology or the use of any of this stuff.

We're, we're here to show that there is a better way. There's an alternative. And if for anybody who's interested, we will provide, uh, what those are and even step by step of how to go through those.

Stephen DeLorme: Well, I think a lot of people would, uh, if you told them, Hey, you know, [00:10:00] um, you should be able, you should be a little, uh, More, um, attentive to what's going on on your farm.

You know that your pitchfork is like, uh, actually kind of has a mind of its own and is like siphoning off the kinetic energy when you bale your hay. And like, you know, you know that that hammer is like sending your data back to the hammer manufacturer and the. Horseshoes, um, the, that you, uh, fix to the feet of your horse are actually like, uh, intelligent and, uh, designs to, uh, sort of, um, expire after, uh, they've used a certain amount of life.

And, you know, the person then realizes you start telling this to somebody and they realize that their whole farm. Uh, is just like kind of, uh, rigged against them, and they're just gonna be like, I give up. Like, you know, like, you know, I'm actually okay with it, like, yeah, it kind of sucks that, like, my whole farm is, uh, you know, filled with devices that are kind of working against me, but, hey, [00:11:00] you know, like, I give up.

Like, there's no way I can fight this. Like, it's already everywhere. Like, every single one of my farm tools, like, is manufactured like this. So like, there's really no point in trying. I give up.

Jordan Bravo: Yeah, that's a common sentiment and I totally get it. Um, if I were to tell you, tomorrow you have to completely get rid of everything on your farm and replace it all.

That would be an impossible task for most people. It's impossible practically, and it's impossible financially. But what if I said, Hey, here's a better hammer that doesn't work against you. Uh, just use this and it's okay that you're still, your pitchfork is, is nefarious and your wagon wheels nefarious, but just use this hammer for now.

That's fine. And you use the hammer and you get used to it. And then maybe a week later or a month later, um, you find out that there's a [00:12:00] better pitchfork and you swap it out and that now your pitchfork is not evil. And, uh, you just do this, you know, one thing at a time. And within, uh, maybe a year or so, you're like, holy crap, I'm living on a farm that is completely what I expect.

And. All of these devices are doing what I tell them to do and nothing further. And really that's the way that I would say everyone can approach their computing lives as well. So most of us are going to be using the default apps out there, which are things like Google and Apple and Microsoft, because that's just what's the most popular and what we all use.

But, um, don't try to go completely quote unquote off grid or full sovereign computing tomorrow, because It's not possible. And you'll just drive yourself crazy and you'll, you'll get that feeling of being overwhelmed and thinking, you know what? It's not worth it. They already have all my data. I might as well just give up and ignore [00:13:00] it.

And I would say that the goal is not to completely go off grid and erase every shred of your data out there because that's not possible, right? Like we've been leaking our data for so long now for years. The way I look at it is shrink your digital footprint in the same way you might shrink your carbon footprint.

If you're into that or, you know, shrink your, um, just any, any kind of footprint where it's an ongoing thing. And you might say to somebody who is overweight. Uh, you know, you could start eating better. You could start exercising and they say, ah, but I'm already overweight. I'm already so out of shape. Like, like what's the point?

Right. It's sort of the same thing. It's like, well, you don't have to, the goal is not to be perfect tomorrow. The goal is just improvement, like go in the right general direction. And you'll find that when you start replacing your pieces of spyware with. [00:14:00] With stuff that is completely under your control, you get a sense of peace because when we go through life knowing that all of our devices are spying on us.

Believe it or not, even if we put it out of our minds, it's there. Yeah. It affects us on a subconscious level. It affects how we talk. Who we talk to, what opinions we express, you know, that the so called chilling effect, right? With, with free speech kind of thing, this seeps into our lives. And I truly believe that it, it stays with us at a subconscious level.

So I think, I think if we, if we look at it in that perspective, it's worth it. And it's also not so overwhelming because this isn't something that I should beat myself up for, for not having completely self sovereign computing today. It's just, hey, this is an ideal. Let me work towards it over time.

There's no rush. And, um, if you're interested, it's completely doable. I think everybody can do it. I've seen the most non technical people manage [00:15:00] to replace a lot of their stuff with, with more self sovereign options. And so even grandma, as they say, you can do it.

Stephen DeLorme: Wow. Well, if grandma can do it, then I can do it.

Jordan Bravo: Yeah. That's the test.

Stephen DeLorme: Yeah. So like, uh, why not, uh, you know, Why specifically a sovereign computing, you know, you could have, uh, could have done another Bitcoin podcast, you know, could have done a privacy podcast or a Linux podcast. What do you think is, uh, what's going to separate this from just a Linux podcast?

Cause I imagine that there's going to be a ton of overlap, right? Sovereign computing. Calls to mind, setting up home servers and stuff like that for me, and which probably involves, uh, some command line work and all that, but what do you foresee this being?

Jordan Bravo: Yeah. Great question. And the reason I didn't go with any of those other topics is because I couldn't find something [00:16:00] other than sovereign computing that encompasses everything.

Um, another term I've heard is freedom tech. But I think Sovereign Computing is more appropriate because I didn't want to call it the Linux and Bitcoin and open source and privacy and self hosting show, right?

Stephen DeLorme: All my favorite things show.

Jordan Bravo: Yeah, it doesn't fall off the tongue. But all of those things, those are all implementations, or those are all means to an end, and that end is really sovereign computing, uh, because Linux self hosting Bitcoin, open source, these all have these, that's the property that we're looking for, which is.

Computing that is self sovereign, that does what I tell it to do and nothing more, that doesn't work against my interests, and is under my control. And so, all of those things are, are encompassed in the words, Sovereign Computing.

Stephen DeLorme: Okay, so Sovereign [00:17:00] Computing is like pretty broad. Uh, there's a lot that we can cover on this show here.

Um, Where, where do we start? Um, uh, you know, because you could, uh, get into stuff here about, you know, how to set up specific projects on your own, like how to, uh, the, the actual nuts and bolts of setting something up on your own server, and then I imagine there's also, you know, that's probably going to take us into more, uh, Advanced territory.

Then there's also more like simpler things like, Hey, you know, you can download this app and you know, you can replace one app with a slightly more private app and it's not the ideal scenario, but it, you know, is like, kind of like 5 percent better than where you were before. Um, and I'm sure, of course, there's all kinds of current events and stuff that's going to be, uh, happening in, you know, the news relating to data [00:18:00] breaches and.

You know, cloud privacy issues and what have you. So a lot of different, um, ways to kind of crack the nut of sovereign computing. How were you thinking about proceeding with this show?

Jordan Bravo: So what we can do is we'll, we'll go through some of the low hanging fruit steps that people can take in terms of doing this small amount, we'll get you X percent of the way there.

Um, stuff that's not going to be too time consuming or upsetting to your current workflow. And then we'll, we'll go into more of the slightly heavier or time consuming topics like maybe self hosting. Um, and, and then we will, we're actually going to solicit the audience. Please boost in and let us know which software computing topic you want to hear about next.

Maybe it's how to self host your own file server for [00:19:00] your, for your videos and your pictures and other things like that. Maybe it's how to self host a Bitcoin node. Maybe it's just, what is a good email app for my smartphone that is leaking less of my privacy than the default Gmail or something like that.

Uh, let us know, BoostIn, and we will answer those questions in, uh, in that order.

Stephen DeLorme: BoostIn, man, this like cool, like youngster speech. BoostIn!

Jordan Bravo: Ah, yes, we should probably talk about, uh, give a quick. Background on boosting. So podcasting 2. 0 is the concept of sending in sats via lightning to your podcast that you're listening to.

So you can go to fountain. fm and look for the sovereign computing show, and you will be able to boost into any individual [00:20:00] episode. You can also stream sats. You can do that with a podcasting 2. 0 app. Um, you can replace your current podcasting app with one of these others. There's Podverse that's on iOS and Android.

There's also Fountain, Fountain FM. That's on iOS and Android as well. And finally on iOS, there's Castamatic. So, uh, but if you want to keep your current app and you don't want to install a new one for podcast listening, just go to fountain. fm, the website, and you can find the software computing show and you can boost in right there.

Uh, and that will probably be under the ATL BitLab podcast.

Stephen DeLorme: Yep, exactly. Be like one podcast, but a lot of different like shows and topics within that podcast. Yeah. Hey, we're figuring it out as we go along. This is, uh, you know, we're here at ATL BitLab right now. It's a hackerspace. It's experimental, a place we're trying new things here.

So I don't know, maybe by [00:21:00] the time you listen to this, something has changed, but hopefully not. We'll see.

Jordan Bravo: Cool.

Stephen DeLorme: Yeah.

Jordan Bravo: Um, maybe we could give a teaser of what we'll, some of the stuff we'll cover in future episodes. Do you have any sovereign computing experience you'd like to share, maybe something that you've done that has improved your sovereign computing that you're happy with?

Maybe even something that you'd like to do in the future that you haven't gotten around to yet?

Stephen DeLorme: Well, there's like, what have I done in the past and whatever, what do I want to do? Like, like. The funny thing is, is I'm going to be, I might be like, you know, as I join you on the show, maybe more of the, the skeptic, right?

Like I'll be the one maybe applying some of that skeptic pressure and asking some of those questions because you know, like we talked before, I'm, I'm, I'm You know, as a UX guy, um, you know, that that's kind of, um, my, my [00:22:00] background is, is user experience design. And so like, I'm always, you know, trying to come up with ways to make things easier.

And, um, I, you know, it's definitely the sovereign computing stuff is hard. It's, it's like kind of an aspirational dream for me, but definitely like. Like, for example, when it comes to like private email or something like that, I think for like the majority of people, my goal is more to get them on to, to move from Gmail to ProtonMail rather than to move them to self hosted mail, because I would rather see a robust ecosystem of end to end encrypted mail providers competing against each other for people's business.

Then like, I feel like that would probably get humanity to a better place quicker is if there were more private male providers with reasonable business models that aren't about selling data competing for a user's business. [00:23:00] As opposed to like, okay, you have to go and like host your own mail server or something like that.

Um, not that I'm not interested in the mail server and I'm glad that people are working on that kind of stuff, but it's like, so when I think about that, it's like stuff like proton and signal and all of that is like the, the, the kind of, you know, products and services that I cherish. Um, but I mean, I think one thing that's got me a little kind of freaked out is just how useful AI is.

And I think I would definitely love to get into AI self hosting and how to make that good and reasonable. All the AI services are so useful. And I just, I think, um, I personally witnessed over the past, like two years, just how much more I use AI in my daily workflows. Um, it started with [00:24:00] art generation, uh, then on to like, Kind of conversing and pair programming with GPT to now like using cursor almost daily.

That's the AI powered, um, code environment. And, uh, this stuff isn't going away. I mean, it's like, it's just, it's just too useful for that. Um, having said that, it's like the easiest way to interact with AIs these days. Are going through services like chat, GPT, or using something like cursor, which my interface with open AI API under the hood, or, you know, mid journey or something like that, the self hosting on the AI, it has a learning curve, but I just, because I don't see the AI going anywhere.

Like it's not as obvious to me how to make that private. I know with something like signal and proton mail, it's like we can use, um, you know, GPG to encrypt that and protect user privacy. [00:25:00] It's just not as obvious to me how to do that with the AI. I know the mutiny folks have something out now with the open secret, but I haven't really had a chance to read up on, on it yet, but you know, setting that aside, it's just like the AI just seems like right for self hosting to me.

And I would really love to, yeah, get into some of that somehow.

Jordan Bravo: Cool. That's. AI is going to be a great topic to, to go over in a future episode. So, um, those of you in the audience, please boost in and let us know what your questions are on AI privacy and self hosting with AI and what kind of options are out there, there are some good options.

And it's getting better all the time is the good news. So that's a little teaser for next time. Yeah.

Stephen DeLorme: So what do you think if, you know, you were to, you know, we're talking about just the, the, this is this [00:26:00] overwhelming space of possible things you could do to regain control over your computing. And it's just about getting, you know, 1 percent better all the time.

So what would be like, uh, the, the thing, I don't know, you had to just say like the one thing that you, that somebody could do that, like, you know, if you were only going to do. One thing on your sovereign computing journey, like what would be the one, whether it's a big step or a small step, like what's like the one step you could take, take that would just have like the most net positive impact on your life, which I know is, you know, is it's like, what, what kind of impact are we talking about?

Are we talking about, does it. Save you money or it like it's the, the, the low, it, it saves you stress or it, it, it's, you know, makes it more private or whatever it is. But like, what do you think is like the thing that could just like make the most impact? [00:27:00]

Jordan Bravo: If people come to me and say, Jordan, I want to take control of my digital life.

What's the first thing I should do? I tell them use a password manager, hands down. And the reason is because it might, might not seem like this is a very privacy focused thing, or that this falls under sovereign computing, but it really does. If most of us, we have a zillion passwords and we have no idea what some of them are, you know, maybe we have to reset them frequently because we forget them, but a password manager is going to.

Get that whole portion of your digital life under control. So, um, I recommend using an open source one such as bit warden, but it's, if you are starting to use a different one, go for it. Like any password manager is better than no password manager. And we all think we're very clever with our little algorithm of how we create different passwords for different [00:28:00] websites.

But, um, if you know anything about, uh, password cracking and, and entropy, those are not secure. We as humans are not good at creating passwords. So stop trying to do it on your own, offload that cognitive burden onto a password manager and let the software do it for you. And this is going to be step one.

Once you've gotten all of your passwords and it's more than just passwords, it's, it's It's also like websites that go along with those passwords, obviously. And then you might have, let's say you have some, some login information, but you also have some secure note that goes with it. So all of this stuff, you get it into, uh, uh, one central digital location, and then you can have more control over all of your logins, right?

You, it's, it's sort of like cleaning up your house before you remodel, you have to sort through everything and figure out where it is. And [00:29:00] That's the first thing I would encourage people to do and start using a password manager. I promise you it will make your life easier. I've never had somebody come back to me and say, you know, I regret using a password manager.

Um, in fact, what everybody says is I'm really glad I started using it. It's so much easier. I wish I had started sooner. So that's my recommendation. Low hanging fruit, start using a password manager and, uh, you'll get to get started on your journey.

Stephen DeLorme: Yeah, that's great. Cause like, I, uh, I think there is something also too about the act of just like you open the password manager and you kind of like see all your stuff there and you can organize your stuff, like you said, you can put notes on things and it kind of forces, not forces you, but like, it's It just, when you see it all kind of like laid out in this organized way, it, it, it makes you kind of feel a little more like you have kind of.

Control over your access information, your identity and all that like that. I actually wasn't [00:30:00] even thinking about it from that angle. It just that thought appeared in my head as you were talking that like, there's just that kind of feeling of being in control, having all of your data. Then another thought that occurred to me as you were saying that is that like, in terms of having a positive, like a net positive impact.

When you think about it, it actually might prevent you from using things like SSO, like single sign on. So like, like passwords are just like maybe one of the worst things in existence. Like, um, I actually heard somebody say that at a tech conference once during a security talk, which I loved because The point the guy was trying to make was that it's just like, yes, obviously passwords keeps things secure, but you run at this risk of people using the same password or like you said, trying to create clever little algorithms in their head and you know, so it's just this terrible thing is that like, yes, in theory they should be really secure.

But when, when it hits

actual users, it ends [00:31:00] up being less secure because of how people do it. Um, so there's obviously been people trying to come up with all kinds of passwordless approaches and. One of like the most common ones over the past 15 years has just been single sign on, like you use, uh, Google, your Google account or your Microsoft account or your GitHub account, uh, which is, I guess, the same thing.

Now, um, you use your Facebook, Twitter account, whatever, and you just single sign on, you sign on to one platform. And then that platform authenticates you to other platforms. And there's, of course, this, if you want to talk, like, to bring it back to what you started at the beginning, you don't want, The hammer to be able to cut you off from every other tool on the farm.

You don't want, uh, like getting cut out of your Google account to suddenly cut you off from every other service in your life. And so it's like, if you actually have a password manager and you have that, that, you know, you actually kind of own the password to everything. That kind of increases your control rather than only being able to authenticate through your [00:32:00] email.

Jordan Bravo: Yeah, absolutely. Great point. And to expand a little more on that last part, you said when we use, whether it's Google, Microsoft, Apple, whatever. For our single sign on, they become the gatekeeper to our digital lives. And so we never want to rely entirely on one single third party, because if anything goes wrong, our access to them is revoked or blocked, or we just lose it for whatever reason, uh, that is disastrous for our digital lives.

If, if our entire lives, our entire accounts of everything that we possibly need to function day to day is. Under the control of one little entry point into, uh, by one company, like, like if we're using Google's SSO for all of our, and we should probably say that's single sign on that's where you, you log into your Google account and then you, that logs you into all of your other non Google accounts as well.[00:33:00]

So that, that single point of failure is really dangerous. We don't want to, that's the opposite of sovereign computing. That would be a, uh, serfdom computing. Yeah. So we don't want that. So what we want to do is over the longterm, you might, maybe you listening right now, maybe you have all of your passwords stored in your Google account and you authenticate to everything with Google, or maybe it's Apple.

Uh, that's okay. You can slowly start moving away from that. You can still keep your Google or Apple account or whatever. But just when you start the next time you sign up for something, put it in your password manager, instead of using the single sign on SSO option from that company, like Google, Apple, Microsoft.

Yeah.

Stephen DeLorme: Oh man. Serf computing. I love that one. It almost makes me wonder if we need like, uh, some kind of, uh, we need, we need like, uh, um, I don't know, some kind of, uh, Inverse of that for [00:34:00] sovereign computing, like, like a, another four letter word or something, it's like Serf computing and then like sov computing, sov computing, Chad computing, you know, I don't know.

Maybe you can, uh, maybe you can boost in and tell us what, uh, what you think it should be.

Jordan Bravo: Please do.

Stephen DeLorme: All right, cool. Well, that sounds like anything else you think we should cover today? Or does that sound like a good wrap up point for today?

Jordan Bravo: Yeah, maybe we'll just do an outro. Um, again, I'm Jordan Bravo. Uh, I'm a software engineer.

And we are recording here at ATL bit lab in the heart of Atlanta.

Stephen DeLorme: I'm Stephen DeLorme. I'm a UX guy working on a Bitcoin. Um, yeah, let us know what you want to hear about on a future episodes of cyber computing and we'll see you on the internet,

ending music effects.

Oh, [00:35:00] I never hit record.

Jordan Bravo: Uh-oh...,

Stephen DeLorme: Hey, thanks for listening.

I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to learn more about anything that we discussed, you can look for links in the show notes. That should be in your podcast player, or you can go to atlbitlab. com slash podcast. On a final note, if you found this information useful and you want to help support us, you can always send us a tip in Bitcoin, uh, your support really helps us so that we can keep bringing you content like this.

All right. Catch you later.