Jordan Bravo and Stephen DeLorme dive deep into Eric Hughes' groundbreaking 1993 Cypherpunk Manifesto, exploring how this foundational document predicted Bitcoin, anonymous transaction systems, and modern digital privacy tools. They discuss the historical context of cryptography being illegal, the evolution from military-controlled encryption to widespread adoption, and how today's privacy-focused services like Mullvad exemplify the manifesto's principles. The hosts examine why "cypherpunks write code" and how this philosophy continues to drive sovereign computing solutions today.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Bitcoin's Anonymous Transaction Systems 00:33 Welcome and ATL BitLab Sponsorship 01:54 New Dedicated Sovereign Computing Show Feed Announcement 03:23 Introduction to the Cypherpunk Manifesto 04:16 Reading Eric Hughes' Cypherpunk Manifesto (1993) 10:47 Analysis: Bitcoin as Anonymous Transaction System 2:04 Minimum Information Transactions (Mullvad, IVPN Examples) 13:11 Historical Context of Personal Computers and the Web 16:47 When Cryptography Was Illegal - Military Weapon Classification 20:51 Supreme Court Rules Encryption as Free Speech 22:21 Bitcoin White Paper as Cypherpunk Goals Implementation 24:28 Satoshi's Use of Decades of Cryptographic Research

Links

• Jordan Bravo
• Stephen DeLorme
• Boost in on Fountain.FM
• Eric Hughes' Cypherpunk Manifesto (1993) - Original document discussed
• Mullvad VPN
• IVPN

Transcript

SOV017 The Cypherpunk Manifesto

Jordan Bravo: [00:00:00] I would say that there's a lot in here that has come to pass and specifically if it wasn't obvious, the anonymous transaction systems. And he talks about how an anonymous transaction system is not a secret transaction system. Some this very much describes the way Bitcoin works, right?

Because bitcoin is a completely transparent blockchain that is open and available for anybody to see, but it is also provides anonymity when used in a certain way.

Jordan Bravo: Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show, presented by ATL BitLab. I'm Jordan Bravo, and this is a podcast where we teach you how to take back control of your devices. Sovereign Computing means you own your technology, not the other way around.

Stephen DeLorme: This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab. ATL BitLab is Atlanta's freedom tech hacker space. We have co working desks, conference [00:01:00] rooms, event space, maker tools, and tons of coffee. There is a very active community here in the lab. Every Wednesday night is Bitcoin night here in Atlanta. We also have meetups for cyber security, artificial intelligence, decentralized identity, product design, and more.

We offer day passes and nomad passes for people who need to use the lab only occasionally, as well as memberships for people who plan to use the lab more regularly, such as myself. One of the best things about having a BitLab membership isn't the amenities, it's the people. Surrounding yourself with a community helps you learn faster and helps you build better.

Your creativity becomes amplified when you work in this space, that's what I think at least. If you're interested in becoming a member or supporting this space, please visit us at atlbitlab. com. That's A T L B I T L A B dot com. Alright, on to our show.

Stephen D-1: Welcome to the Sovereign Computing Show. I'm Jordan Bravo and I'm recording here [00:02:00] today in a TL Bitlab in the Heart of Atlanta with Steven Delo. What's up? we want to announce to everybody that we have a new show feed. Previously we had the Sovereign Computing Show under the A TL Bitlab Podcast feed.

But we are excited to announce that the Sovereign Computing Show now has its own dedicated feed. So you can find the Sovereign Computing Show in any podcast player, Spotify, apple, et cetera, everywhere else, you just search for sovereign computing and it will be the first result. It will have the image or the icon will look like a microchip and, um.

Yeah, you should be able to find it. Now. You can also find that on Fountain fm. That's Fountain fm. You can boost into that show. So we hope that you will use the new feed and that you will find it easier to find to search for. However, if you would like to have all [00:03:00] of the A TL Bitlab podcast episodes.

That includes the Sovereign Computing Show as well as two other feeds, which contain live events that are recorded here at A TL Bitlab as well as the Behind the Build Show, which features Steven De Alarm interviewing software developers on what they're building in the Bitcoin and related space.

Anything you wanted to add on that? Nope, I think they pretty much covered it. Okay. Today we are going to talk about the Cipher Punk Manifesto. And for those of you who have not heard of or read the Cipher Punk Manifesto, or maybe you're just rusty on it, this is an incredibly important piece of, digital literature.

This was created by Eric Hughes back in 1993. Three, thank you. Back in 1993, and. Since this is an audio show, primarily [00:04:00] we wanna make sure that people listening are not given, uh, second class treatment here. This is not one of those YouTube shows where you have to be watching. I'm gonna read it out loud for you, and so please sit back and enjoy the Cipher Punk Manifesto by Eric Hughes.

Accuses privacy is necessary for an open society in the electronic age. Privacy is not secrecy. A private matter is something one doesn't want the whole world to know, but a secret matter is something one doesn't want anybody to know. Privacy is the power to selectively reveal oneself to the world. If two parties have some sort of dealings, then each has a memory of their interaction.

Each party can speak about their own memory of this. How could anyone prevent it? One could pass laws against it. But the freedom of speech, even more than privacy, is fundamental to an open society. We seek not to restrict any [00:05:00] speech at all if many parties speak together in the same forum. Each can speak to all the others and aggregate together to together knowledge about individuals and other parties.

The power of electronic communications has enabled such group speech and it will not go away merely because we want, might want it to. Since we desire privacy, we must ensure that each party to a transaction have knowledge only of that which is directly necessary for that transaction. Since any information can be spoken of, we must ensure that we reveal as little as possible in most cases.

Personal identity is not salient. When I purchase a magazine at a store and hand cash to the clerk, there is no need to know who I am. When I ask my electronic mail provider to send and receive messages, my provider need not know who I am speaking or what am I, what I am saying, or what others are saying to me.

My provider only need know [00:06:00] how to get the message there and how much I owe them in fees when my identity is revealed by the underlying mechanism of the transaction. I have no privacy. I cannot hear selectively reveal myself. I must always reveal myself. Therefore, privacy in an open society requires anonymous transaction systems.

Until now, cash has been the primary such system. An anonymous transaction system is not a secret transaction system. An anonymous tran, an anonymous system empowers individuals to reveal their identity when desired and only when desired. This is the essence of privacy. Privacy in an open society also requires cryptography.

If I say something, I want it heard only by those for whom I intended. If the content of my speech is available to the world, I have no privacy. To encrypt is to indicate the desire for privacy and to encrypt with weak [00:07:00] cryptography is to indicate not too much desire for privacy. Furthermore, to reveal one's identity with assurance when the default is anonymity requires the cryptographic signature.

We cannot expect governments, corporations, or other large faceless organizations to grant us privacy out of their bene beneficence. It is to their advantage to speak of us, and we should expect that they will speak to, to try to prevent their speech is to fight against the realities of information.

Information does not just want to be free. It longs to be free Information expands to fill the available storage space. Information is rumors. Younger, stronger cousin. Information is fleeter afoot, has more eyes, knows more, and understands less than rumor. We must defend our own privacy. If we expect to have any.

We must come together and create systems which allow [00:08:00] anonymous transactions to take place. People have been defending their own privacy for centuries with whispers, darkness, envelopes, closed doors, secret handshakes, and couriers. The technologies of the past did not allow for strong privacy, but electronic technologies do.

We, the Cipher Punks are dedicated to building anonymous systems. We are defending our privacy with cryptography. With anonymous mail forwarding systems, with digital signatures and with electronic money, cipher Punks write code. We know that someone has to write software to defend privacy, and since we can't get privacy unless we all do, we're going to write it.

We publish our code so that our fellow Cipher Punks may practice and play with it. Our code is free for all to use worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system [00:09:00] can't be shut down. Cipher punk's.

Delore regulations on cryptography for encryption is fundamentally a private act. The act of encryption, in fact, removes information from the public realm, even laws against cryptography, reach only so far as a nation's border and the arm of its violence. Cryptography will eclu. Ably in Ineluctably.

Ineluctably. Thank you. I don't know. Spread over the whole globe and with it the an anonymous transaction systems that make it possible for privacy to be widespread. It must be part of a social contract. People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society.

We the Cipher Punks, seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be [00:10:00] moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals. The Cipher Punks are actively engaged in making the net networks safer for privacy. Let us proceed together a pace onward.

Eric Hughes, ninth March, 1993. You didn't read his emailHughes@soda.berkeley.edu. Ah, yes. I wonder if that email still works. I don't know. We should try. Yeah, maybe we should email him and ask him. So this manifesto under underpins a lot of what we, the descendants of the first generation of Cipher Punks hold dear and, and have as our world goals.

Jordan Bravo: I would say that, there's a lot in here that has come to pass and specifically if, if it wasn't obvious, the anonymous transaction systems. And, he talks about [00:11:00] how an anonymous transaction system is not a secret transaction system. Some this very much describes the way Bitcoin works, right?

Because bitcoin is a completely transparent blockchain that is open and available for anybody to see, but it is also provides anonymity when used in a certain way. And it allows people to selectively reveal themselves, right? Because I can reveal that my transaction is that my identity is associated with a given transaction, but if I choose not to do that, then I can transact anonymously.

Stephen D-1: The other thing he talks about is you only, we should only give the necessary information, reveal the necessary information for any transaction. So for example, when he talks about. Purchasing a magazine at a store and handing cash to the clerk. There's no need to know who I am. So, similarly, you might have heard in previous episodes we talk about when you transact [00:12:00] online, you wanna be doing it with giving the minimum amount of information possible.

some privacy respecting service providers will have this outta the gate, outta the box, requiring you to do no additional work. Something that comes to mind is a. Moad, the VPN provider or IVPN, the VPN provider, where they give you, when you sign up for their service, they give you just an account number, which is a character string, and you don't need anything else.

You don't have to give them an email, you don't have to give them, any kind of identifying information. So that's the minimum amount of information required for a transaction. And then, and if you're using, in that case, if you're using. Bitcoin to transact. Again, you are not giving them a credit card information, identity, any of that stuff.

So that's a perfect example of how of an ideal transaction that takes place digitally, right? One side is providing a digital service, and the other is providing a digital [00:13:00] currency in exchange for that service. And no other superfluous information has to change hands. Okay. Okay. Any thoughts so far on this, Steven?

Yeah. So I think it's worth, taking a step back from this paper for a minute and giving a little context to, people who've maybe never heard of this stuff before. Like, you know, your reaction to this paper will, you know, vary depending on, you know, how you feel about, Privacy and all that. I think, you know, for, for some people it, it, it, you know, sounds a little, I don't know, suspicious, maybe like a, a little like, uh, p that's not the word I'm looking for. I think to some people this might come across as paranoid, if you're not familiar with this line of thinking, but I think we have to put ourselves into like the, the head space of, of.

The author and kind of like the, you know, the, the people he associated with and also the time period that this took place in. So this is in the early [00:14:00] nineties and, you know, we're, we're kind of at this point in human history where the personal computer is still relatively new. especially personal computers with like desktop operating systems.

And the web itself, like the ability to go to like a website, like http, www.whatever.com, that, that way of using the, the internet that's relatively new. It's only existed for about two years at this point. So this is like very, very, new technology. And this is kind of like this new way of thinking that like, oh wow, in the future, every single.

Government in the world is going to have computers and every single company is going to have computers and how, and they're going to collect information on everybody. Like they're thinking ahead, like, that's the Cipher Punks basically. Uh, they're, you know, this group of people, they're thinking ahead to the future when, every organization has computers and, and they're collecting lots of information.

[00:15:00] And they're saying the idea that an individual can also have a computer now, a personal computer, and they can kind of use that as a tool to defend themselves from these organizations. And you know, it, it, it sounds paranoid when you, you know, at, at first glance, but then when you actually think about it, they were actually pretty correct about the.

Way that the world works. you know, obviously we, you know, there's tons of government data collection, but there's also tons of corporate data collection. and especially when you think about like, you know, just as an example, when you get into like elections and the US and there's always, you know, debates about like, well, is.

You know, is Twitter only, you know, banning people on the right or does Google have a political bias or like, did you actually want to buy that? Or have you been kind of like, has, you know, Facebook targeted ads been like working you for six months? Well, the only reason [00:16:00] we can even have, you know, debates like these, or the, the only reason we are having debates like these is.

Because it is true that these organizations have tons of data about us. So, you know, while it may have sounded paranoid to people at the time, it actually ended up, being correct. and, so you, you know, that, you know this, you know, kind of group, loosely organized group of people on the internet here.

Um, you know, Eric is calling them the, the Cipher Punks in these paper, and he is kind of outlining. The, philosophy of, of this group and, uh, what motivates them and what they plan to do about this problem. Yeah, thanks for that context. Sometimes I forget, people may not even have heard the word cipher punk before, so I, I have another little historical thing I meant to go into.

Yeah, please. But like, another thing, this, this seems kind of weird 'cause you know, he talks about cryptography a lot in the paper, and one thing that we all forget about is that cryptography was at one point illegal. Um, it was a [00:17:00] sort of, it was a government, you know, it, it was seen as like being like a, a government tool.

and, and this seems weird, you know, if you've, you know, grown up with smartphones because, it's like, well, obviously it has encryption. you know, there was like a little padlock that, appears in the corner of the browser. Um, when you go to a website, actually I take that back. There isn't there used to be, but a lot of browsers no longer even surface that because it's just expected that all web communications are encrypted, right?

Like it used to be that having a web, an encrypted connection to a website was a special thing. Now it's seen as a default and being unencrypted is they, they let you know when it's not encrypted. you know, everyone kind of expects that their Apple messages are encrypted to some degree. You always hear these news articles about the FBI, you know, having to work really hard to try and hack iPhones to get people's iMessage and all that kind of stuff.

Obviously, we've talked about, as we've talked about before, you can't fully trust iMessage. But the point is, is that the modern day, we have this [00:18:00] expectation to some degree of a certain level of encryption. This wasn't always the case. That's because when you look back in the history of cryptography, I'm gonna paraphrase here a little bit.

A lot of what we know about cryptography, like kind of began, you know, at least with computer cryptography began during World War ii, began during the forties. You know, the, the Nazis had this tool, the, the Enigma Machine, this, you know, like mechanical device that was used to try and. you know, come up with, you know, like I, I guess you, I don't know if you'd call it like a rudimentary encryption key, but you know, a way for, you know, for their military to, uh, be able to, uh, encrypt messages.

And so the allied forces, you know, have a bletchley park and they have the. The, you know, this is where Alan Turing worked and there was this, you know, um, movement to try and build, you know, war, really early computers. It's like, how can we use technology to break the enemy's technology, right? And so after World War ii, you know, cryptography and these early computers were, [00:19:00] you know, made for, encrypting things and, and trying to break other people's encryption.

And so this was seen as military technology. And so you enter this era of the personal computer, like late eighties, early nineties, and suddenly you have people trying to, and these are the Cipher Punks, punks. They're trying to, write encryption software that can run on a personal computer. And this was very, very controversial at the time because, you know, there was actually, you know, you know, accounts you'll hear on the net of like.

Uh, you know, people holding a cryptography conference and like, you know, you know, thinking, well, that guy in the corner is like a plant from the NSA or something. And this, again, this sounds a little paranoid, but you have to put it in historical context. At this point in time, these things were seen as military weapons.

It's like this whole, you know, kind of, you know, part of the cipher punk mythology that it's like, well, the, the, the encryption software was illegal and. Um, if [00:20:00] you were to, you, you know, share a floppy disc with this encryption software, you know, you were transporting, uh, munition. in legal terms.

And so that's where, you know, people were trying to kind of, you know, come up with these resistance things like, well, if I tattoo the encryption algorithm on my body, does my body become illegal? you know, if I put it in a book or a t-shirt that, you know, might be like, subject to some kind of free trade, you know, rule or something like that.

Does it? you know, is it no longer a munition? And, you know, it, it, and nowadays all of this, you know, seems like, well, obviously encryption, you know, people should have encryption. But, you know, if it wasn't for this, this, movement, the, of, you know, digital activists called the Cipher Punk, it, it might be that, you know, this stuff would, this knowledge would, you know, still be, walked away hidden from all, all of us today.

Thanks for the historical context. And one more thing is the, it culminated, I would, you could say [00:21:00] in a landmark case in the nineties where the Supreme Court of the United States ruled that encryption and software is actually treated like speech. And so that they, could not forbid it under that classification.

And so, uh, I think that's sort of the start of when encryption started becoming available to everybody. You know, previously, like you said, it was. Highly controlled, and it was a military and government tool and weapon you could even say. And now suddenly this powerful technology is available to anybody that has a personal computer.

And he kind of predicts this in the paper too. I says, we don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed [00:22:00] system can't be shut down. Yeah, exactly. And jumping forward to 2008 when Satoshi released Satoshi Nakamoto released the Bitcoin White paper, that is so jumping from 1993 when this was written to 2008, you could see.

The Bitcoin white paper was putting into practice many of these same cipher punk goals that are listed right here. Um, what is it, 10, 15 years prior? Yeah. It took, I guess about, uh, eight, yeah, like 15 years for, them to finally, uh, invent electronic money. And something that for, for people who are Bitcoin geeks out there and have studied this history a little bit, you'll know that even though Satoshi released the Bitcoin White paper in 2008 and the first, Bitcoin software in [00:23:00] 2009, it did not come out of nowhere.

It was built on all of this privacy and encryption technology that had been. worked on for decades, right? So you had the, the first public private key cryptography came out in the 1970s with the RSA algorithm. so that, that was absolutely essential for Bitcoin to be invented. It wouldn't work without that kind of cryptography.

And then, um, you had hashing algorithms that was over the next several decades in the seventies, eighties, nineties. And, proof of work as well, which was, which was invented in the nineties as well for, basically an anti-spam prevention Hash cash. Yeah. Hash cash by Adam back. And so you had, it, it was really a culmination of decades of cumulative research by all of these cipher punks and cryptographers [00:24:00] and, and.

By bringing these things to the open source world where anybody could work on it. You had some, you had the possibility for an anonymous person like Satoshi Nakamoto to use all of these available tools and to put them together in a unique way and invent something that nobody had been able to invent up until that point, which was digital money.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like Satoshi, you know, nobody knows who Satoshi is, and it doesn't really matter at this point if you ask me, but it's like, it, it seems like Satoshi was, and, and, you know, must have been inspired by these conversations. Like, you know, maybe Satoshi was somebody who was on the, the cipher punk mailing list.

and, and that's, , another kind of point is like this, this manifesto, I think was originally shared on the Cipher Punk mailing list. And so there was a, a lot of [00:25:00] conversation and, uh, about this kind of stuff and, you know, that's, that's where a lot of these, people would hang out on.

I'd like to fast forward to today and talk about the echoes or the, um. The mark that this manifesto has left on us. And, you and I, I would say are kind of, we're, we're a similar age. We're certainly younger than Eric Hughes and probably younger than Satoshi, although we can't know for sure. But, just based on when you and I ha have, uh, started our careers and got into software, we.

Uh, I think it might be accurate to say we're sort of second generation cipher punks are sort of following in their footsteps mm-hmm. As we continue to push forward both Bitcoin building on top of Bitcoin and all of the sovereign computing software that we, use and [00:26:00] spread and work on and promote, and it's, it's.

All in the name of a similar ethos that is described here, which is, privacy as a, as a right, the ability to selectively reveal oneself to the world and, the use of encryption technologies for everybody. Yeah. Well, I hope I'm a second generation cipher punk. Maybe, maybe not. You're right. We're certainly second generation from them.

I bet that that brings up a, an interesting point, which is, uh, famous line here. Cipher Punk's write code, and, I definitely write code. I'm, you know, I always identify primarily as a designer, but I've definitely written a ton of, front end code and, you know, some, some backend, the smattering of backend code here and there.

And I think, this definition is interesting. I'm trying to think if I've ever like directly worked on a, like, I guess I have written code that has gone, I mean, I've definitely written code that real [00:27:00] users use. So, but it's interesting when you, you think about it because, they're very strict about that kind of definition.

I think. and some, some people interpret this line a little bit more broadly these days of like, oh, well it's just someone who just like, generally likes and, you know, cryptography and privacy and stuff. You can call yourself a cipher punk. Some people are a little more strict about that definition.

They'll say, no, you're not a cipher punk unless you write code. I think it's interesting because I think there's a little bit of wisdom in, in, in the stricter, uh, definition because the, the way I interpret a lot of the like cipher punk philosophy is like this, it's like you can have your opinions about what.

You think a government or a company should do? And that's fine. You're welcome to have your opinions, but at the end of the day, it kind of doesn't matter what you feel about what they [00:28:00] should do because they're gonna do whatever they're able to do. Right. I think he, he kind of says something to that effect at another point in here.

Like, you know, one line is like, uh, you know. it is their advantage to speak of us and we should expect that they will speak to try to prevent their speech is to fight against the realities of information. So, it's, it's like the, the kind of philosophy is that like this kind of negative state of the world where, third parties will try to collect information on you and we'll try to use that against you.

it's not something that your thoughts and feelings will really change. And so the, the conclusion I think that they've come to, is that the only way to, you know, the, the only path forward from that is to actively defend yourself to like digitally defend yourself. and the way that you like digitally defend yourself is using cryptography.

It is. encrypted, uh, it is, encrypting your messages. it is, verifying your identity to, you know, being anonymous where possible, verifying your [00:29:00] identity, uh, via the use of digital signatures. it is using anonymous, anonymous, electronic, cache systems. It's, it's all of these different things.

These are like ways that you actively fight to claim your privacy and you actively work to conceal yourself. and so that's why I think the, the, the Cipher Punk's right code line is that it's like, you know, it's like that being Cipher punk, I think in their eyes is more than just like a, a, ooh, I'm interested in this, or I feel this way about something.

It's like I'm actively doing something and I'm actively, kind of, asserting my will, uh, via the code that I write. Totally. And if you wanna take a stricter definition of the Cipher Punks, you know, maybe it was only these particular guys that wrote that kind of software, and maybe those who do. So today, you could say we here are following in the footsteps of the Cipher Punks.

[00:30:00] We are championing that ethos and, benefiting from the work that they've done, but. In any case, I think, I think we can say that we want to, to push forward this idea. Absolutely. Yeah.

I wanted to repeat a line that you had referenced. We cannot expect governments, corporations, or other large faceless organizations to grant us privacy out of their beneficence. And I just wanna repeat, I wanna focus on that because it's, it's worth. Concentrating on the fact that if we just sit back and don't care about our privacy, corporations, governments, and other organizations, they are not, it, it's not in their best interests to care about our privacy and, and to grant us privacy and to act in our best interest that way.

So they're not going to the only people who will are us. So if we don't do it, no one will. [00:31:00] Yep. And I think that's important to remember when people sometimes ask, you know, why bother going through all of this trouble? Why do you do a weekly podcast on this? Why do you go through the extra steps required to make your devices more private, et cetera?

And that's part of the reason because nobody else is gonna do it for us. Yeah.

Another part I wanna focus on is where. He says that I'm looking for the spot now, so apologies for the the pause, but

I'm looking for the part where he talks about how it's not bound by a nation's. Ah, here it is. Even laws against cryptography reach only so far as a nation's border in the arm of its violence. Cryptography will enact. I still don't know what this word means. I've gotta look that up. [00:32:00] Electively spread over the whole globe, guys.

Dude's got a vocabulary not to be avoided or escaped. Inevitable. Okay? So it's cryptography will inevitably spread over the whole globe is what he is saying in electable. In electable. Thank you. Thank you for that. So what he's saying here is governments can make laws and regulations on cryptography, but because cryptography is information, it's not gonna be bound by any nation state borders.

I mean, countries will try, governments will try to enforce it, but ultimately it's really difficult even with the power of the most. Powerful nation states in the world, it's almost impossible for them to enforce, these regulations and laws on cryptography because how do you put down a wall for something digital?

Right? [00:33:00] How do you prevent something from leaking out across the internet? Well, you might say China does, tries to do just that, but we know that their great firewall of China is not airtight, right? Things leak in and out all the time. so they, this is, and China of course, has a very totalitarian approach.

We here in the west don't have that.

Stephen D-2: Okay. We had a recording equipment failure and we lost the last 10 minutes or so of the discussion, but we are going to continue on now with the boost segment. we got a boost from Gavin Green for 100 SATs, and Gavin says It does indeed. It does indeed. Gavin was referring to a previous boost by me, Jordan Bravo, and I was sending in a test boost just to see if it was properly displaying my name when I hooked up my nasta profile.

And for those of you who don't know, you [00:34:00] can in Fountain connect it to your Nasra profile. You just paste in your end pub and it will show your, your name and your avatar. If, for those of you who want to link the two up, if you want to boost in, you can do so with Fountain fm. You can do that on iOS or Android, or you can do it through the Fountain FM website.

You can also. Email us sovereign@atlbitlab.com. And Steven, did you have anything you wanted to add? Yeah, and if you have issues boosting, because sometimes with Fountain and other podcasting 2.0 apps, you need to use a special kind of lightning wallet that not everybody has and it can be a little frustrating.

So if you just want like some regular Bitcoin payments, and you wanna support the show, you can go to atl bitlab.com. And click on the podcast, uh, link. And the header nav bar, it's just slash podcast is the URL. you. There is a send us a tip button, underneath the podcast description.

Also, if you click on any [00:35:00] episode, there's a big, orange. Send us a tip button. Those buttons just go to our BDC pay server. It accepts regular old Bitcoin over lightning. Nothing fancy. On chain Bitcoin, that might be a little bit easier for you than the Fountain Boost. Um, so yeah, if you do want to, support the show sends a tip, you can always go there if that's easier for you.

Yep. And that's atl bitlab.com/podcast. Alright, thanks everybody. We'll see you next time later.

Stephen DeLorme: Hey, thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to learn more about anything that we discussed, you can look for links in the show notes that should be in your podcast player, or you can go to atlbitlab. com slash podcast. On a final note, if you found this information useful and you want to help support us, you can always send us a tip in Bitcoin.

Your support really helps us so that we can keep bringing you content like this. All right. Catch you [00:36:00] later.