Rich Lassiter: First Currency Wars, Then Trade Wars, Then Real Wars - Atlanta BitPlebs - (EVNT004)

In this episode, Rich Lassiter explores the economic insights from Jeff Booth's book, The Price of Tomorrow. Rich delves into the 2007-2008 financial meltdown and how experts' misjudgments led to rapid unraveling. He explains the dynamics of trust-based financial systems and the Ponzi-like nature of current economic structures. Rich also covers the transformative power of technology and the unique position of Bitcoin as a true free market, offering a comprehensive breakdown of platform dominance, creative destruction, and the Minsky Moment's impact on modern economies.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction: Currency Wars and Global Meltdown
• 00:30 Event Recording and Sponsors
• 02:13 Introduction to the Speaker and Book
• 02:51 Chapter 1: How the Economy Works - Printing Money
• 16:40 Chapter 2: How the Economy Works - Creative Destruction
• 28:16 Conclusion and Speaker's Final Thoughts
• 29:25 Closing Remarks and Support

Links

• Rich Lassiter, MD
• The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth
• Jeff Booth's Website
• Jeff Booth on Nostr

Transcript

Rich Lassiter: [00:00:00] First there's currency wars, then there's trade wars, then there's real wars.

We're in the midst of a serious global meltdown. And of course, you know, all of us are old enough to know that we were in a big meltdown in that year, right? 2007, 2008. point is experts got it wrong and they didn't know it until it was right on top of them.

Bubble popped and people realized that debt could never be paid off. And when the credit is taken away, everything unravels very rapidly.

Stephen DeLorme: This podcast episode is an event recording. If you're listening to the audio version, you might be missing some context from the speaker's visuals. You can find the video version at atlbitlab. com. That's A T L B I T L A B dot com. There might also be audience questions or other background chatter that's not audible.

Look, event recordings are never perfect, but we're sharing it here because we think you're going to find something valuable in it. [00:01:00] Let's talk a little bit about our sponsors first, and then we'll get onto the show.

This episode is sponsored by ATL BitLab. ATL BitLab is Atlanta's freedom tech hacker space. We have co working desks, conference rooms, event space, maker tools, and tons of coffee. There is a very active community here in the lab. Every Wednesday night is Bitcoin night here in Atlanta. We also have meetups for cybersecurity, artificial intelligence, decentralized identity, product design, and more.

We offer day passes and nomad passes for people who need to use the lab only occasionally, as well as memberships for people who plan to use the lab more regularly, such as myself. One of the best things about having a BitLab membership isn't the amenities, it's the people. Surrounding yourself with the community helps you learn faster and helps you build better.

Your creativity becomes amplified when you work in this space. That's what I think at least. If you're interested in becoming a member or [00:02:00] supporting the space, please visit us at atlbitlab. com. That's A T L B I T L A B dot com. All right, on to our show.

Rich Lassiter: So, I'm Rich Lassiter, I am an emergency room doctor, I love Bitcoin, I love you guys. And I had a twist in my arm and said, you must present. So I am presenting on, on The Price of Tomorrow. Um, I had never, actually never read this book until now. Uh, and I haven't read it all yet, but I read these chapters and I'm ready to talk about it.

So, um, here's our book. I want to point out something, um, The book is from 2020. Obviously, it's been, you know, four and a half, five years, whatever. Probably he was writing it in 2019, I'm guessing, and published a time, etc. So, this is five year old information, more or less. That was today's block height when I was typing up these slides.

Um, so, uh, onwards to chapter one. Uh, how the economy works, part one, printing the money. And [00:03:00] he led off with this interesting story about this guy he knows, uh, who is named Chen Fong, who his parents were afraid. And he, this is what his parents, uh, they were elderly Chinese people, I'm guessing, had said, first there's currency wars, then there's trade wars, then there's real wars.

And You know, the other week, when Doug was talking about this, he was talking about how kind of, uh, uh, the premonition, that's not a word, but there's a word I'm looking for that I can't find right now, about, um, the foresight, basically, that Jeff Booth had. How these things have kind of come to play, like, we were seeing trade wars, that wasn't 2020.

And it became a topic in the Trump presidency, you know, after that. So, very interesting, I thought, to see that, and real wars, right? Then we have the stuff in Ukraine and the stuff in Israel. Like, we're having real wars now. So this is kind of coming to, coming to, uh, fruition, if you will. Alright, um, and then his next topic [00:04:00] was, he's talking about all these financial experts and how they were, you just, we just started, Joe, you missed nothing.

Um, and so, um, What they got wrong. And so I thought this was pretty interesting. I know there's a lot of words up here, but, uh, I want to point out. So the first one is Ben Bernanke, who was the chairman of the federal reserve from 20, 2006, 2014. And he's like, you know, the bold bit there. So they, their, their job is to make sure that there is not excessive risk in these institutions that the federal reserve is related to.

And obviously, as we know, with the hindsight. That's exactly what they did not do, right? There's plenty of risk in these institutions. Um, and then, as we go along, so that, that first quote was in 2005. Three years later, January 2008, we're not forecasting a recession. In July, and I've made this an orange bold here, so in July 16th, everything's well capitalized, no danger of failing, and then September 18th, holy shit, the world is falling apart, right?

Uh, the Treasury [00:05:00] Secretary says we must spend several hundred billion dollars. And then, you know, a month later, Janet Yellen, who became our treasurer's secretary, she just left a moment ago. But at the time, was the head of the Federal Reserve Bank of 2000, of San Francisco, basically saying that this downward trajectory is hair raising.

We're in the midst of a serious global meltdown. And of course, you know, all of us are old enough to know that we were in a big meltdown in that year, right? 2007, 2007, 2008. So point is experts got it wrong and they didn't know it until it was right on top of them. Also, I'm going to, I don't mind being interrupted.

We can talk about if you guys have insights or additives, these aren't my thoughts, unless a few things are my thoughts. Mostly this is Jeff Booth's thoughts, so we can interrupt and add color whenever you guys want. Um, then he goes on to talk about how the, uh, uh, the bubble, the financial, the great, great.

Financial crisis, the bubble [00:06:00] popped and people realized that debt could never be paid off. And when the credit is taken away, everything unravels very rapidly. The system is, as we all know, as Bitcoiners, this is a Ponzi where we're all trusting that banks have the assets we think they have until everyone wants them and then it all unravels.

And so the system works on trust, remove the trust, and it falls apart. I think back, um, to, you guys probably watched, uh, It's a Wonderful Life, and you see that movie, and like, there's one of the banks, right? And like, that's the reality of the world, before the Federal Reserve Bank was propping up all these, all the institutions that were gonna fail.

Alright, crazy formula here, this is the formula for the Gross Domestic Product, um, and he's really talking about the trade between nations. Um, and so the GDP is made up of four things. Consumer spending, or personal consumption, investments, exports, and government spending. And you add all these up, you get the GDP.[00:07:00]

So, um, he talks about there being a balance of trade between nations. And that nations are basically going to do whatever helps them. And so if we are in this country, as we all are, um, what we might do to drive up our GDP is going to be to increase consumer spending, which makes sense, right? And that we are like the most consumer society on the planet, right?

We spend and spend and buy and buy, right? That's the kind of the American way is to buy more things. Whereas if you're in a lower income country, then your main Uh, way to drive up your GDP per that formula up there is to increase your exports, because maybe you can't buy things from other countries, so you export other countries.

And so from a Bitcoin standpoint, I kind of put it in the orange there that the country is going to do what helps them the most. This is a game theory, right? The game theory is do what is to your advantage. So Countries are going to maintain these policies that incentivize their side of the equation with help.[00:08:00]

And the government health is, is usually those things, tariffs, taxes, or subsidies, right? The government helps you out by making your, your widget cheaper, or it taxes the people they don't like, or it takes tariffs to make you not buy these guys and buy these guys instead, right? No, don't buy the Canadian goods, buy the American, don't buy the Chinese goods, buy the American goods, right?

By just driving the price up. But, as we all know, you really shouldn't tinker with the economy that takes away the free economy. Okay, then he goes on to talk about the Ponzi economy. Um, and he, I like this first bit, this first quote. We fool ourselves into believing that asset prices always go up over the long term because that's what we've always seen.

Right, we've always seen, we've lived in this world where house prices always go up. Until they don't, right? In 2007, I don't know how many of you were homeowners in 2007. Maybe a lot of you are, and then all of a sudden, your thing, which is always going up, poof. It's not worth what it was, right? And then there's lots of, lots of bankruptcies, [00:09:00] lots of people foreclosing on their homes.

Um, alright, so to keep the system running, central bank monetary policy all around the world has a target inflation rate, and the one we favor in this country is 2%. That's a completely arbitrary number, like, there wasn't anyone that was like, There wasn't like a bunch of research. It was just the, the New Zealand, the Kiwi banks decided 2 percent in the 1990s.

And everyone's like, Oh, that seems to be like a good policy. We'll go with that. So that's where our, that's where our 2 percent target inflation comes from. Just was made up 30 years ago, almost 40 years ago. Um, and then he talks about the rate of inflation. So like, uh, hourly wage of 3 and 25 cents, which I believe was minimum wage back in 1970, I can't be mistaken.

Um, It will be the same purchasing power as having 20 per hour today, well, in 2020 when the book was written today. Um, and then, uh, this is a direct quote from the book. Uh, currency found on trust is the value of the [00:10:00] currency. And so doesn't that mean that by setting inflation targets, governments have a stated goal of eroding that trust?

So in other words, like, if you look at this objectively, the government's, their mission is to be nefarious. Kind of weird to think about it from that perspective.

Audience: Little comment. Yeah. So last week, um, guy came in from Rabobank in England and did

Rich Lassiter: Christian Lawrence.

Audience: Yeah. And, uh, I was at the morning one and he was talking about this and how he was talking about how the Fed was trying to basically craft policy to get us down. And that they hadn't really been succeeding, and that the rate was getting, was still in the high twos. And I asked, it's like, is 3 percent the new 2%?

Or I mean, it's 2, yeah. Yeah, you said it right. Really quickly said, yeah.

Rich Lassiter: Yeah, he, yeah, he,

Audience: uh. It's like, you can tell that they're, they're like, steering us to start [00:11:00] accepting 3%. As the new norm, and that we should expect it all the time. And I thought that was interesting that he so readily just agreed to that.

Rich Lassiter: Yeah. Yeah. That, uh, for context that, that gentleman, um, one of our Atlanta folks, um, Ed Juline had suggested that we watch, uh, that we come to this talk that he gave at the Dutch embassy, not, not embassy, Dutch chamber of commerce. Um, and this guy, Christian Lawrence works for a Dutch bank and he gave a really interesting, really interesting talk.

It's probably somewhere on YouTube, I don't know. But, uh, yeah, it was interesting. That was last week. Alright, um, Cheap money. Talking about the global financial crisis. Uh, we had this, uh, choice. The government had this choice between one and two. They could bail out the banks and risk, bail out the banks and the risk takers to create a moral hazard by saying, oh, these guys are, We're going to absolve them of their sins, and here, let's just make them whole again.

[00:12:00] Or, we could let them fall, right? And, obviously, we all know what happened. We chose door number one, and not door number two. Door number two would have had probably a better outcome, like objectively, for like, the, the monetary balance around the world, if we had let them fall. But banks would have gone under, and people would have been unhappy, and much, much misery.

Instead, we kicked the can down the road, printed money, bailed out the banks, and we'll have the misery later on. I don't know when it's going to happen, but it will happen eventually. Um, and so, uh, going to the third paragraph there, the central banks decided who won and lost, and so now we're experiencing the second and third order effects.

of people having this discontent, and this is maybe leading to the rise of populism. People are so unhappy because they are so financially disadvantaged, if you're far away from the money printer, i. e. the cotillion effect, if you're far away from that, you are getting objectively worse and worse. Um, and I, I will say, I actually planned on having a bit [00:13:00] more, um, To the slides, one of the slides that I took a stole from Chris and Lawrence the other week really showed how much worse off the lower, like, say, 20 percent of the economy is due to the money printing over the last five years.

Um, and I didn't have enough time to get that put together. So

Audience: just quickly, is it, uh, is it proportionate or is it disproportionate?

Rich Lassiter: It's disproportionate. Yeah. So the top tier has accelerated. The middle tier has kind of maintained like that, like the. Um, I think he had it broken down, um.

Audience: It seemed to be related to asset ownership.

Rich Lassiter: Yeah, I agree, asset ownership. So if you're the top, you know, 5 or 10 percent of society, you've accelerated. If you were the middle, like, 50, 60 percent of society, you're slightly better off. But if you're in the lower 20 percent of society, you're much worse off. Like, you know, 15 percent worse off.

Audience: So if you double the money supply, people aren't twice worse off?

They're even more than twice worse off? [00:14:00] (inaudible)

Rich Lassiter: Uh, I don't I don't know,

Audience: (inaudible)

Rich Lassiter: Don't think that the ratio is quite as dramatic as you said, because if you think about where, like, we're going to get to in a slide in a minute here about, um, Oh, here we go at the bottom here. So, um, so the Fed balance sheet, for example, it was nine under a trillion dollars, 2008, right?

And when the book is written, it was 4 trillion. And then today it's a little over 7 trillion, right? So we're accelerating at a. Jeff Booth likes to say exponential rate, right? So we're going up much more than like, you know, doubling or whatever, right? Um, but I don't know that we're, that the, that correlation is as dramatic as it is.

Yeah?

[00:15:00] Oh yeah, if you, if a dollar more, yeah, a dollar more cost for your bread, like, most people aren't going to, anyone who's making a reasonable amount of money is not going to feel that, but if you're living paycheck to paycheck. You're probably going to feel that tremendously if you have to pay a dollar more every week for your bread than, than you were the week before.

Yeah.

Um, and so, one of the things that governments get to do is change the rules. And this is where tariffs and trade wars come in. And he's referencing, because again, we hadn't had the ones, we hadn't had the ones with China yet that were going, that were in the news. Um, so he's talking about after the Great Depression, that there, the government enacted reforms.

To, um, to basically, uh, help out the farmers by their, they raised the, the, they raised the prices on goods imported from Canada and Europe. But apparently, uh, that, um, harmed the farmers and it took them longer to recover from the Great Depression because of that. Um, I was not aware of that [00:16:00] before the book.

Uh, so government, uh, changing the rules and distorting the market. So I think, uh, I think that Bitcoin. Is unique, because it's the only true free market in the world. Because no one is manipulating the supply of Bitcoin. Um, maybe some whales are. But like, there's no governments that are manipulating the supply of Bitcoin, right?

So, so, you can't What's that? The dolphins? So, um, anyways, it's not, uh, It's, it's an opportunity for anyone in the world to get in or out whenever they want. All right, that was end of chapter 1. Anyone want to talk about chapter 1 anymore? Any questions or additions about chapter 1? So chapter 2, part 2 of How the Economy Works, is called Creative Destruction.

He touches on this topic a lot, about creative destruction. This is, the coined this term, the word was coined, term was coined, by an Australian American economist named Joseph Schumpeter. who lived through those [00:17:00] years. And he basically said that innovation by entrepreneurs is the disruptive force that sustains the economic growth even though it costs the value or destroys the value of an established company.

And so basically, this is, he's basically saying technology disrupts things. Right, that's really, if you summarize this, technology disrupts things and that hopefully we get new and better things when it disrupts things. And I think that's one of the points we'll get to eventually in the book. And so here's an example of, uh, of creative destruction.

So Blockbuster was this, you know, such a huge entity, and it had 84, 000 employees, or 9, 000 stores, and then Netflix's upstart, right? It doesn't have to have all the stores, it uses the postal system, and it mails DVDs, and some of you might not be old enough to know that there were DVDs in Netflix, and it wasn't just streaming.

But it's, you got a DVD in the mail, it's like this, you got a little DVD in the sleeve, and it came in the mail, and then you had it for like three days, you put it back in the mail, and You, I don't know, you paid ten bucks or something like that for the monthly subscription to [00:18:00] get up to three DVDs at a time or something like that.

And so, Netflix had to mail DVDs because we didn't have a fast enough internet to just do streaming. But then eventually there was just streaming, right, and we didn't have to do DVDs anymore. And you got your Netflix on your device, on your computer, on your, on your thing connected to your TV, whatever your Apple TV or whatever that was.

And so, that totally disrupted Blockbuster, and Blockbuster's advantage of having all these employees in all these stores became a disadvantage because now it was now a giant overhead for them. And, uh, so, in result, Netflix created, and Blockbuster destroyed. And one thing I want to, that Jeff didn't talk about, but is, is I think pretty key to this, is DVD technology, right?

So DVD disrupted. The VHS technology, right? So, this wasn't going to happen. We had to mail around these big box cassette tapes of VHS's. You could go to the box store and get that. But then once VHS's became, the movie data became smaller and flatter [00:19:00] and you could put it in the mail and send it around the world very easily.

That was another thing that was another technology that disrupted the existing technology prior to this. Plus it was a better picture, right, than the VHS was.

Audience: Question? Just ask yourself. Why, why couldn't Blockbuster win, right?

Rich Lassiter: He talks about that though. Blockbuster would have had to, they had this existing momentum, right, of having all these stores, and all these employees, and had to pivot from all those, had to unwind all that to have just DVDs in the mail.

And so how do you, how do you see in advance that you have to unwind this giant, you know, business that you've created?

Audience: There's a popular book called The Innovator's Dilemma, and it talks about this exact effect, which is when you try to innovate within an existing company that's successful, it almost always cannibalizes the existing revenue.

[00:20:00] And when that is the threat within the company, then the existing company always wants to resist the innovation. And that's why startups can always run circles around existing companies, whereas existing companies struggle to innovate.

Rich Lassiter: He talks about that with Eastman Kodak, uh, in a later chapter. Um, Bill direct.

So this was Jeff's company and he, uh, started this company. It basically was like a builder's supply company. And he talks about how he went all in and he had like three kids under four with his wife and like, they sold their house for all their money into the company. And they went like all into this business and it was working.

He had a marketplace and then he realized he could change things were kind of almost like the Amazon model where he let suppliers give him the data. Like instead of him having to choose, he says, flyers, art suppliers, you can show me how many products you have. And he went from [00:21:00] 6, 000 products to 150, 000 products.

And it was working. The business was successful. And, um, Then, uh, you know, it took him a while to figure that out, to iron out the kinks with the business. He did his big switch when he did the switch to having this many products. But he said along the way he realized that family, friends, and integrity were the things that were important to him and basically not the business.

So he decided, this was his quote in the book, to betray myself. Was the only way to truly fail. So he basically decided like, business, business, his business job isn't as important to him as his morals. Um, and he mentioned this TED talk that he went to about Bill Gross, who I'm pretty sure was a famous investor, but I cannot, I didn't Google him and, and look up what his, uh, what his, um, background was.

But he had a TED talk and he talked about the success of startups and basically most of it is timing. [00:22:00] So when you launch your book, your, your, not your book, sorry, uh, when you launch your business is most important as not anything else, right? It's not your funding, it's, it's the win, it's the, it's the time right for you to launch this business.

And then that was 40 percent of the, of the success, 30 percent was the team and how they executed, 20 percent was the idea, I'll let you read the rest. But, um, interesting that timing was the most critical thing. And then he goes on, I didn't write it all down, but he goes on to talk about, um, Ford. And how, uh, when Henry Ford started the Ford company and it didn't work well.

And then, uh, a couple of years later, he got the assembly line worked out and then it worked well, and then how these other countries around the world had their different, uh, automotive startups that started different times. So like, you know, when GM started and when Volvo started, and they all were like, it was timing, I was like, when did this start?

Uh, and then he talks about DeLorean. You guys remember DeLorean, probably the famous car from Back to the Future. That was a man, I forget his first name, last name was DeLorean. He worked at, uh, at Chrysler, I believe it was, [00:23:00] and decided to start his own company, and it didn't work. And basically, uh, Jeff's attributing that to timing, which is why it didn't work.

Alright, speaking of, um, successful companies, we have Amazon. So, he mentions that in 2001, Amazon had lost 94 percent of its market share, market cap. From this peak just two years earlier and that's got to be pretty hard, right? If you're like an Amazon investor or even if you're a tech investor, this is the dot com bubble, right?

So 99, well, you know, the peak was I forget the month of this peak. It was somewhere in 2000, but um, the bubble popped Amazon went down in value. Lehman Brothers wrote this really, uh, awful Uh prediction report saying Amazon's gonna blow up They have to pull a rabbit out of a hat in order to like succeed and then Um, obviously they succeeded because we're, Amazon is one of the biggest companies in the world.

And so, when the book was written, it had 8 percent of all retail sales were from Amazon, which is astonishing. And they had nearly half [00:24:00] of every dollar sold online. Like, that's just kind of crazy that one retailer had nearly half of all, all e commerce. Um, and Amazon Web Servers, uh, was 80 billion in business in 2020.

And at 30 percent of crowd computing, I looked it up, today it's 91 billion. Um, of, uh, the AWS service, but they also have about the same amount of the percentage of cloud computing. And of course we all know that Lehman Brothers is gone because they weren't able to predict their future very well. Um, this was interesting as well.

So the book has these first two columns, um, the largest company 2009, 2019, and how they changed. I went ahead and added in the 2025. So we can see how these companies were. And if you look at the ones in 2009, we have lots, mostly we've got like. Um, uh, energy companies and building companies, right? And if you look, look down the list, it's building and energy.

And now then we've got in 2019, we have mostly technology companies. And [00:25:00] then in 2025 again, I think they're all know Saudi Aramco. Everything else is technology, right? The only one that's not technology is Saudi Aramco, which is. Uh, you know, oil plus business, because I think that's the Saudi national firm.

Um, but then I threw in our beloved Bitcoin there, 2. 1 billion today. Uh, sorry, 2. 1 trillion today. That's one thing I wanted to point out on this, uh, set as well. So these are all in the billions, and then we have billions slash trillion, and then we have trillions. So, that just goes to show the money printing and how the asset inflation is going on, uh, over these.

What is that? 16 years. That's not very long. 16 years, that's not very long. Anyone have comments about this one? Okay. Um, oops. Uh, platforms. So what we saw on the last slide really was it's not just technology, but it's platforms that are, uh, becoming the most dominant, uh, things and value in society. And that has to do with the [00:26:00] network effects.

So, So, uh, he mentioned Amazon, Airbnb, and YouTube, how these are platforms that allow the suppliers to put the content on, right? Well, your, your content is your, your Airbnb, like it's your unit that you're selling, or it's your, it's your SKUs that you're putting on Amazon, or your videos that you're putting on YouTube.

Um, and then supply can scale almost indefinitely when you're just aggregating this, these lists that someone else has given to you. So you're not, if you don't have to, if your business is not to. You create the product. You let the creators create the product. And you just are the base of the search engine for the products.

He also talked about the illusion of choice. So he mentioned like, Google search, he mentioned that if you search something in Google, you're probably not even going to go to the second page. Right? Much less the 35, 000th item that's on the list. So you have the illusion of choice because whoever's on the search engine optimization has gotten their product to the top of the list and you're just seeing the top list.[00:27:00]

Um, and where this is the end, um, uh, he mentioned this, uh, Hyman Minsky, uh, was a, uh, I think it was an, I think it was a professor at NYU, um, and is the, uh, tipping point. He's talking about the Minsky moment is when the debt fueled asset bubble collapses and the assets become difficult to sell and market collapse ensues.

So that even when governments preach free market rules, they will still act as a lender of last resort when their economy is, uh, faced with collapse. And so Jeff says that it's not the debt that undermines capitalism, it is the act of stabilizing the economy through socializing losses. If we reference back to the, you know, door number one, when the government chose to bail out the banks, that's the problem, is bailing out the banks is the problem.

You know, I think the people at the time, Made the best decisions they thought they could do. At the [00:28:00] time, I don't think it was nefarious. Maybe it was, it probably wasn't. I don't know. Who knows? But it's very easy for us to all like second guess in hindsight and decide they should have done a different thing than they did, but panic.

Yeah. It, they did what they did and how now we have to live with it.

All right, that's, uh, I'm gonna go, that's the end of chapters one and two. That's me. I'm Rich Lasseter. I'm a neurodoctor. I love Bitcoin. I took this from Doug. Nothing to sell you. No financial disclosures. I own Bitcoin. Uh, I have a website. I write a blog post every once in a while on the website. But I spend most of the time on Twitter.

I spend an irrational amount of time on Twitter. Um, so, I'm on Twitter. I know, I should probably go to Nostra, but I haven't. I, I, I, I have an account, but

Audience: What's Twitter?

Rich Lassiter: I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I spend an inordinate amount of time on Twitter. That QR code is my website. It's just the CryptoDoctor. com. Oh, I will say [00:29:00] Before I figured out Bitcoin, I thought all crypto was important. And I haven't, uh, you know, undone the work that I did years ago. So, that's why I'm a crypto doctor, not the Bitcoin doctor. But all the, there was all the Bitcoin doctors, they were already there.

So, yeah.

Audience: (applause)

Stephen DeLorme: Hey, thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you want to learn more about anything that we discussed, you can look for links in the show notes that should be in your podcast player, or you can go to atlbitlab. com slash podcast on a final note. If you found this information useful and you want to help support us, you can always send us a tip in Bitcoin.

Your support really helps us that we can keep bringing you content like this. All right. Catch you [00:30:00] later. [00:31:00]